{The List} Graphics

[vovan]

Introduction
Graphics is of course an important aspect of any game. That is how we perceive the game world, and that is how it communicates with us. Ideas regarding how we would like the graphics to look like, as well as requests, and suggestions go here.

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Summary
None Yet.

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Related Threads
Civ IV will have a 3D map! A discussion of possibilities by VetLegion
Squares, Hexes, Octagons... by Uber KruX
Vote HERE to bring back Wonder movies by Dominae

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Table of Contents
None Yet.

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The Ideas

1. The Two Outlooks

So, currently, there are basically two points of view on the graphics. One is that it should be merely functional, and it doesn't much matter that it looks good - as long is it is not ugly. Some of the proponents of this point of view are:

Master Zen: We do not buy strategy games for flashy graphics so this is perhaps the only aspect of Civ4 I am really not interested in.

Solver: What I'd love to see is Civ1 graphics in Civ4. Seriously. Functional, still good looking, easy to understand. Extremely low computer requirements. Implement all the new gameplay concepts, etc., but Civ1 graphics.

The other point of view is that even for strategy games, graphics should progress with the technology. The move to 3D is only a natural step in the same direction other games have been moving lately. Though there aren't many people around who support a move to th 3D.

Trip : 3D can be good (as I've said elsewhere) - streamline the graphics creation process, add new features that improve usability (better zooming, panning, etc. options), and make the map more interesting to look at, obviously.

2. Unit Proportions

Well, we already know that the game will be done in 3D. The next question is, how would the unit and city proportions be handled? Historically, the natural proportions were never preserved. That is to say, units on the map were disproportionately large. Basically, if we look at the map, we see the cities, mountains, and units being roughly the same size. I suppose there's reason to believe that will still be the case in Civ3, for as we have seen even with the newer strategy games like RoN, it would be easiest to inflate the size of the units in order to make them discernible from the bird's-view persepective that the games usually take.

DarkCloud: Landscapes and mountains and vistas are just too large and people are just too small for the proportions to work out correctly. It's always going to look a bit strange.

VetLegion : No realism in depicting units, and even little realism in depicting cities. It was always so in the genre and I think it will remain so in 3D.

But terrain itself could for the first time become more realistic. 3D will allow for more variation and I think it is reasonable to expect realistic proportions between land features themselves. Himalayas being twice as high as the Alps and such, instead of both being represented by generic "Mountain" tile drawing.

3. Avoid Excessive Eye-Candy

Whatever the view on the desired type of graphics engine for Civ4, it seems the consensus is that excessive eye-candy is unneeded.

Trip: [Avoid] focusing in the minor details and the "fluff" which other genres and especially RTS games liked to get sucked into.

4. Wonder Movies:

See the related voting thread. So far, the option to bring back the wonder movies is leading.

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Conclusion
None Yet.

[vovan]

Just in case post.

[vovan]

What if we have a lot of discussion here post.

[Master Zen]

We do not buy strategy games for flashy graphics so this is perhaps the only aspect of Civ4 I am really not interested in. Civ3 had pretty decent graphics.

Perhaps the only drawback I see in Civ3 is that the 3D animated graphics pretty much reduced the number and quality of fan-created units simply because they were beyond the means of us mere mortals with no 3D experience.

[Jon Shafer]

3D can be good (as I've said elsewhere) - streamline the graphics creation process, add new features that improve usability (better zooming, panning, etc. options), and make the map more interesting to look at, obviously.

Traps that could be fallen into: focusing in the minor details and the "fluff" which other genres and especially RTS games liked to get sucked into. For example, zooming into cities and watching laborers do their jobs or zooming into a battle and seeing individual fighting it out.

[Brent]

I too would like to have graphics similar to Civ1. I strongly agree about low computer requirements. Better zooming options is good. Fan- created units are a good reason for simple graphics. We do not need to be able to zoom in to watch laborers and definitely not battles. Have more than one graphics mode.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Trip
Traps that could be fallen into: focusing in the minor details and the "fluff" which other genres and especially RTS games liked to get sucked into. For example, zooming into cities and watching laborers do their jobs or zooming into a battle and seeing individual fighting it out.

That's only a trap if they neglect other areas. If they have the fluff and the stuff, then this is a perk, not a trap.

Frankly, the game is going to have much better graphics than the previous Civs. Why? To attract a larger audience. Now, the Core audience is going to get it anyway, so might as well do a bit extra to make it appeal to a larger set. That's jut how it is, and it is a bit unfortunate that graphics matter like that, but they do.

As such we should focus on what we want to see, and what priorities we have, as opposed to trying to say we want low graphics. The latter isn't going to happen.

-Drachasor

[FrostyBoy]

I trust Firaxis this time round. (After seeing land screenshots of Pirates II).

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Drachasor


That's only a trap if they neglect other areas. If they have the fluff and the stuff, then this is a perk, not a trap.

Frankly, the game is going to have much better graphics than the previous Civs. Why? To attract a larger audience. Now, the Core audience is going to get it anyway, so might as well do a bit extra to make it appeal to a larger set. That's jut how it is, and it is a bit unfortunate that graphics matter like that, but they do.

As such we should focus on what we want to see, and what priorities we have, as opposed to trying to say we want low graphics. The latter isn't going to happen.

-Drachasor

Considering the fact that most games are delayed or incomplete due to a lack of effort put in the right locations, there's usually very little time or people that can be spent on "fluff" while not hurting the rest of the game.

[asleepathewheel]

I'll be happy with just about anything at or above the current level ov ciii, so long as folks such as Sn00py and Warpstorm can work their magic.

[Urban Ranger]

You mean skins (customised graphics)?

[Brent]

Graphics to concentrate on: opening movies, wonder movies, victory movies, advisors

Graphics not to concentrate on: unit animation, terrain, CG leaderheads

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You mean skins (customised graphics)?

me?

I was referring to the terrain sets the two created. I've used Warpstorm's watercolor set since it was released for civ3.

[ixnay]

Seeing as how most of my time playing will be spent looking at terrain in one form or another, I would like them to spend the effort necessary to make really good-looking terrain.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Trip

Considering the fact that most games are delayed or incomplete due to a lack of effort put in the right locations, there's usually very little time or people that can be spent on "fluff" while not hurting the rest of the game.

Considering the artists making graphics aren't going to be programmers, and that after a certain point it is all artist work (no more programming), it actually doesn't do much to hurt the game, per se. Naturally some companies, as in the film industry, spend more time on fluff than on substance. This isn't always the case, and it needn't and won't occur here. Unless you are saying you somehow think the Civ team is going to suddenly be focused on graphics to the detriment of everything else?

Anyhow, as I said, there is going to a certain amount of work put forth into graphics. They are going to be 3D. Now I am sure the Dev-team understands we don't want the best graphics in the world, indeed, I am sure they understand the substance is of primary importance in order to get good sales. As such, there are going to be a *limited* amount of resources put forth into graphics, and the Dev-team might appreciate some idea of where the fans would like to see that focused on. "Don't spend time on graphics beyond Civ-1 levels" isn't helpful. What will be found helpful is something like "focus on terrain more than Leader-heads" or "wonder movies more units."

Personally I think the Wonder Movies should be nice and entertaining, but since Units and terrain are going to be around the whole game, I'd like more time spent on them. The Civ2 movies were great, and I don't think anything much beyond that really needs to be done (beyond updated graphics)

-Drachasor